It's a Gobbler Country Friday Free For All
by furrer4heisman on Dec 10, 2010 8:01 AM EST
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Talk among yourselves. I'll give you some topics.
- Is Andrew Luck the best quarterback we've faced since Matt Ryan?
- Jayron Hosley continues Virginia Tech's rep for developing cornerbacks.
- Who's going pro: Ryan Williams, Darren Evans, both or none?
- Should we feel bad if we don't buy our bowl tickets from the ticket office and instead find the cheapest deal out there, regardless of the seller?
- Will the basketball team end its three-game losing streak Sunday?
- What's your favorite palindrome?
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CAM
I’ll throw one out there …
I’m getting tired of Cam Newton. I’ll be pulling for Oregon next month. I just hate that Cam Newton and his dad are probably laughing at the rest of the college football world right now.
Yup
Total BS the loophole they found. If this was ANYONE but the likely Hiesman winner on a team that could win the NC he would be suspended.
let's be rational...
There is no evidence that Cam did anything wrong. The NCAA can’t rule based on assumptions, no matter the odds of those assumptions being correct. There must be evidence.
Well..
His dad admitted to trying to get money from Miss. State. Why try to get one school for big money, get told “no”, and then just say, “ok.. we’ll go to Auburn for free.” Give me a break.
It doesn’t pass the eyeball test. I wonder how all those church renovations got taken care of.
I love how the NCAA dug for 5 years on Reggie Bush.. and figured things out in 24 hours for Cam Newton’s case.
I think you missed the point
eye test involves assumptions.
You’re right that it stinks to high heaven, and there’s a very good chance that Cam and/or Auburn were involved in wrong doing here. But there’s not enough evidence to prove it. And there are possible explanations, however unlikely. E.g., Money for renovations came in from elsewhere and Cam’s dad was no longer so desperate for money. He may have gotten scared that he was going to get caught if he didn’t stop (Miss St. may have even told him they were going to report it, which would scare someone). We just don’t know what really happened, and it would be very unfair to Cam and Auburn to assume that we did.
Also note… the NCAA investigation is not complete here. They’re still digging. Who’s to say it won’t go on just as long as the Bush investigation before they’re done. You’re comparing apples and oranges there.
Heisman Trust is not the same as NCAA
Review the Mission Statement of the Heisman Trust. Note their use of the word “integrity”.
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
so?
what evidence of a lack of integrity by Cam do you have? Evidence.
the fact that he enter a plea bargain in Floriday in regard to the stolen laptop
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Where to start . .
I too am sick of hearing about Cam Newton. I tried to watch the SEC CG but had to turn the sound off because the announcers were putting me into a sugar coma. Cam Newton reeks of “the appearance of impropriety”. I applaud Kyle Tucker (with The Virginian Pilot) for being one of 6 Heisman voters who did not include Newton on his ballot. Remember, before the whole “pay to play” thing there was the stolen laptop. I can only assume the Heisman Trust wants 2 black eyes . . Reggie Bush and Cam Newton.
How much did the 17,500 Orange Bowl tickets cost Tech? Who believes they paid market value for them? What is the potential exact loss for the University when you consider the huge payday they get for just showing up less what the tickets actually cost them? Should they not sell all of their 17,500 tickets, perhaps the University could consider a charitable donation (equal to what they paid for the tickets) to a charity such as Wounded Warriors and then donate the tickets to local military to attend the game.
Favorite (special) Palindrome . . SWIMS because if you flip it upside down and then reverse it, it is still SWIMS
Favorite (legitimate) Palindrome . . . RADAR because he kept the whole operation running!
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
like Kyle, but...
his decision to leave Newton off the ballet was ridiculous. He decided not to vote for someone not because he doesn’t think they are the best player in college football (which is what he was supposed to be voting on), but rather because he wanted to make a statement. A statement based on assumptions that may or may not be true, no less. It’s flat out irresponsible.
obviously the idea of "The appearance of Impropriety" escapes you
And you may not completely understand the Mission Statement of the Heisman Trust, to-wit:
The Heisman Memorial Trophy annual recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity.
(emphasis added)
It is the “with integrity” part where it gets tricky.
First, he was arrested in November of 2008 in relation to the purchase of a laptop. The charges were subsequently dropped after he agreed to and completed a court approved diversion program. This means that he plea bargained and only upon his successful completion of the court-program the charges were dropped.
A person who has acted with integrity does not get charged in such a situation. Questioned? Detained? Perhaps. Charged? Not usually.
Finally, we have the ever-present “pay to play” scheme. Nothing, absolutely nothing, and no one, in this situation has acted “with integrity”. No matter who says what about who did what or who knew who was doing what, there is not “an appearance of impropriety” here; therefore, the entire situation lacks “integrity”.
I know when I was at Tech, the Honor Code was strictly enforced, so much so that if I knew someone had cheated and I did not so inform the professor and it was then determined that I knew and decided not to say anything then I too was guilty of cheating and subject to expulsion. This is Honor and this is Integrity. This is the standard to which I hold myself. This is the standard the Heisman Trust claims to hold in its Mission Statement. The lack of integrity surrounding Cam Newton should disqualify him from eligibility for the Heisman Award.
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
He is the Heisman Trophy Winner of 2010...
not 2008.
Plus, the last I checked this America. Innocent until proven guilty. Don’t remove your vote unless you have proven that he’s done something wrong. If after he wins the award you find the facts the he did it, then rip it away. Not a big deal. Nobody else in college football deserved the award this year anyways.
let me quote myself
The charges were subsequently dropped after he agreed to and completed a court approved diversion program.
Plea bargaining charges is not “innocent until proven guilty”, but the opposite. Innocent people go to trial and appeal should they loose. People not so innocent plea bargain. He also plea bargained the charges while he was a student athlete and thereby under the guise of the NCAA. Your argument fails. Simply because it occurred in 2008 and not in 2010 does not matter; he was an NCAA student athlete at that time, as he continues today.
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
a reasoned argument
Thank you for your reasoned argument. I would differ on a few points.
1) “appearance of impropriety” is not found in the Mission Statement of the Heisman Trust. Integrity is, and that’s the other side of the coin of impropriety, so the concept is close to being there. But “appearance”, or anything like it, is lacking. And that makes a big difference. No, “exhibits” doesn’t equate to “appearance” here, because it’s “whose performance best exhibits” and nothing in Cam’s performance/actions has demonstrated a lack of integrity. And note the “whose”… it’s not about the integrity, or lack thereof, of anyone or anything else. It’s only about Cam’s integrity.
The arrest in 2008 is irrelevant here. The award is for the 2010 season, not 2008. Don’t try to tell me that Heisman voters are expected to look back into someone’s past and make sure they never did anything wrong in their whole life… Would you have been disqualified from an honor award your senior year at Tech because you did something stupid when you were a sophomore? Or would you be judged on your current behavior and how you’d changed for the better?
Again I ask… how has Cam not acted with integrity in this pay-to-play situation? This discussion is about Cam, an individual person. Obviously there is evidence of a lack of integrity where his dad is concerned, but that is irrelevant to whether Cam deserves the award.
I applaud your commitment to integrity. i feel the same way myself. But it doesn’t mean we should get on our high horse and condemn people without evidence.
and just so you know
Molinaro didn’t include Newton on his ballot either.
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Upon further review
105 voters kept Newton off their ballots which is a lot more than the original 6 that were reported.
CTOB
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But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
by McDammit on Dec 13, 2010 4:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cam Newton…
during the ACCCG, the announcers went so far as to call Manuel Cam Newton-esque , I mean really?
We beat the crap out of FSU, and the QB was Cam Newton-esque?
Well If that's true
then if we played Auburn we should win that game. Cam Newton is a good player, but he is definitely overhyped. I think if Newton wins the Heisman, he will just have to give it back. It will be vacated just like Reggie Bush’s was.
by Chris Brooks on Dec 11, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
it's not true
Cam is on a different level than Manuel. A completely different level. Neither can you say that if that’s true we would beat Auburn… Cam also has a better team around him than Manuel did in the ACCCG.
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