Seth Greenberg: Virginia Tech-Old Dominion Basketball Series "Probably Won't Happen"
by Mark Trible on Feb 18, 2011 12:50 PM EST
in Virginia Tech Basketball
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PrintSeth Greenberg made a guest appearance on the Lefty Dreisell Show, which is featured on 102.1 'The Game' out of Virginia Beach recently. He was asked about when the Hokies and Old Dominion Monarchs would matchup again in the regular season.
The exchange went as such:
Host: Before I let you go, a lot of people ask me this all the time during our weekday show: When is Virginia Tech and ODU going to hook up again with a little series, basketball-wise?
Seth: It probably won't happen.
Host: Not gonna happen?Seth: We're scheduling in the best interest of Virginia Tech and what we need to do for our basketball program. We're going to play games that we think can help us grow our brand. Games that will televised on national television and that's -- it is what it is.Host: Yeah, it's not really going to happen. And I try to tell people thisall the time, it's not a ...Seth: I'm really happy I came on Lefty's show without Lefty and you threw that curveball at me.Host: Well, no. I'm just saying is I get asked that all the time and I try to tell people ...Seth: Well that's good. That's not my problem.[Blaine Taylor Interview]Host: So what do you think about [Greenberg's comments], coach?Taylor: Well, you know ... I don't ever want to tell people how they should do their jobs or what they should do and I'd like to think that ... one opinion I had when I first got here was I said, "You know, if we could be one of the best teams in the state or the best team in the state, we could have a really good program. And that's one of the things we've aspired to do. So, you know -- one, I'd like to think that the teams that at least talk like they want to be some of the better teams in the state would open themselves up to playing some of the best teams in the state. We've won more games in the state of Virginia than anybody in Virginia the last half-dozen years. And we had a good series with Virginia Tech. Unfortunately, what happens when one team kind of gets the best of the series, some times the other team says, "Hey, there's some other people to play and some other things we want to do." You know, I get along with Seth just fine. He can do his business the way he wants. If he doesn't want to play, I can't make him, but I do think the fact we won some games in the series is something that goes into it, obviously.
There are a couple of things about the Greenberg that could certainly leave a sour taste in Tech fans' mouths. First of all, when a coach goes on a radio show (especially in the Commonwealth), it would be in his best interest to act professionally. That's not really how Greenberg comes off in that exchange. In fact, he sounds like a self-righteous coach in the mold of Coach K, despite the fact he has no reason to act that way.
If you listen to the interview, you can tell that Taylor handles himself much better. Granted, Taylor probably has more familiarity with the show and the hosts, it still doesn't diminish his professionalism. If a recruit, or his family heard those two exchanges, which coach would merit their kid's talent for four years? In one of the most talent-rich parts of the state, appearances like the one on Lefty's show can do wonders for recruiting. Greenberg was thrown a 'curveball' and in more ways than one, he swung and missed.
Secondly, one could make the argument that ODU actually is the best program in Virginia. And, if the argument was made it would be in competition with a couple schools not named Virginia Tech. Tech's basketball program has not been a hotbed of success and that is what it is. But, one may have thought that the Hokies were Texas and ODU was Sam Houston State judging by that radio clip. ODU has been to three NCAA tournaments in the last nine years, from one of the toughest mid-major conferences in the NCAA. As many of you know, Tech has been to one.
Not only is the discrepancy of tournament appearances of note, so is the scheduling the two teams have done. Just last year alone, the Monarchs played Missouri, Mississippi State, Dayton, Richmond and Georgetown. In fact, they beat Georgetown on the road last season. Taylor and his Monarchs have no fear and it has helped them in the long run. It's ironic that playing ODU isn't in the 'best interest' of Tech's program, yet playing them last year may have been enough to get them in the tournament....Or the year before....
Another interesting aspect of Greenberg's excuse is that the goal is to 'grow our brand'. Believe it or not, the knock on the coach is that he's too interested in public relations and not enough on the X's and O's. Grow our brand? What brand? The only brand Virginia Tech basketball has to fans across the country is the team who almost makes the NCAA tournament. And when they don't, their coach goes on every possible show and whines about it. Well, except Lefty's show now.
Also, it's problematic that he points to national television as the sole purpose of their scheduling. This excuse is about as weak as their scheduling has been in the past. An early season matchup of Old Dominion and Virginia Tech would probably grab a spot on ESPN 2 or at least ESPNU. And, it would probably be ODU's recent success that would get it on one of those stations. The Monarchs are currently on a four-game run during which three of their games will be on either ESPN2 or ESPNU.
It's a shame that the Hokies don't use the great mid-major basketball in the state to their advantage. George Mason, Old Dominion, Richmond, and VCU always field strong teams, while William & Mary and JMU are improving as well. Even with the talent in the state, the Hokies have stuck to playing state schools like VMI and Radford. It doesn't matter if the Hokies lose to one of those teams, but a nice in-state rivalry with one of them is in the fans best interest. Maybe the fear of losing to those teams is what drove Greenberg's adamant response.
That, or the fact he's 1-3 against Taylor.
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I won't
argue anything here, but being in the 757 I am privy to a couple of things.
1. they DO NOT like each other… at all. wish I could spill it.
2. other than VCU there is no team on the odu sched, the yrs VT played them that the fans & players wanted to beat more. not mason, not gtown. where do you think odu ranks with us? in the 3 losses, I went to 2, listened on the radio to the other, odu was the more up team to be in the game. it simply meant more and that is the prob. you could argue talent was equal & 1 loss actually favored VT, but odu played with a chip on their shoulder and even being the best in the state. they almost always will vs VT or uva.
another note, all 3 losses were very close & could have easily gone either way. 8 points combined, 1 game went to ot w/ a half court buzzer beater to tie it .. odu winning after opie fouled out half way thru ot. that was the only well played game of the 4, by either team. this is not to take away from odu, they did what they needed to do, but it’s not like seth is being owned clemson vs unc style.
done on my phone, hope it reads well.
by BeerControl on Feb 18, 2011 1:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
To much reading
into this radio show. Sure, ODU fields a good team and have been. One could argue that VT plays better teams that the CAA plays. First, Coming out of the big east and now in the ACC. I can bring up that fact that we beat beaten UNC, DUKE MD amoung others that were great teams in the past 10 years. But do I, No. Why not, cause it means nothing now, right? I understand where Seth is coming from with not wanting to play ODU win our lose. He wants talent to see his program playing team like Kanas State, Penn State, Purdue. How many high school players have heard of ODU that don’t live in Va. My quess, not many. Sure, we want the talent that comes out of Va Beach and if VT was there, we would get most of them. Most of the top players in high school don’t want to play most of their games againest team like JMU, hofstra or UMBC (university of maryland baltimore county). <——, that’s my point…
Recently Duke has played
regular season (non-tournament) games against Butler, Gonzaga, UAB, Rhode Island and Davidson. Good mid-major teams where they were in no-win situations. Then again, Duke’s usually fight for a No. 1 seed and we’re just fighting for a any seed.
A bullhorn, a bottle of whiskey and a dream. Gobbler Country | Twitter | Facebook
by furrer4heisman on Feb 18, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
fighting^
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by furrer4heisman on Feb 18, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
The fact is VT did have a series with ODU when
UVA wouldn’t give them the time of day.
That’s the frustrating thing, is that Greenberg actually traveled there in the past and still gets bashed. Who else has done that? Then, of course, Blaine Taylor took a few swipes at Seth and acts offended that Seth won’t play at their place again. Please.
What does VT have to gain from playing road games at ODU, Mason, Madison, VCU, etc? Very little. It’s the lay of the land. That’s just how it works. Let me know when UVA goes on the road to play one of these teams. It’s rare across college basketball for the major in state programs to play road games against in state mid majors. I would have to think VT is among few schools who have done it in the last decade. Greenberg has played ODU, Richmond, William and Mary, both at home AND away. Who else does that? Yet, Greenberg is getting bashed. This article ignores reality in my opinion.
Even more hypocritical is the fact that ODU treats Norfolk St. the same way. Ask Blaine why that is and write an article on that. Funny how he doesn’t practice what he preaches.
Agree here
ODU is in a mid-major conference. They HAVE to play against better competition in order to be recognized. But if we play them, it’s a lose-lose situation for us. It doesn’t look incredibly great if we win (it will look better if we beat a worse Big East team or something). So I think what Greenberg is trying to say is he would rather play high profile teams. And if he wants lower profile teams, he’ll take cakewalk games. I’m not necessarily agreeing with his view, but it’s the overwhelming majority of bball coaches and teams that do this.
Like GreatHokie said, it’s too much reading into this show. He never compared ODU to Tech. He just said it doesn’t make sense to schedule ODU for Tech.
I do agree with the author on his lack of professionalism though. He’s got to chill out, no matter what curveballs the show throws. I do like this line though: “I’m really happy I came on Lefty’s show without Lefty and you threw that curveball at me.” hahaha
Looking over the schedules
of ODU and VT from 2001 until the end of 2010 season, the win lose colum is not much different. ODU in that span, 187-103. VT 152-119. That’s only 35 more wins. Yeah, I give ODU credit for having more wins in “virginia” than any other school. If you add the total number for the schedule’s you will see ODU has played 19 more game than VT, so the 35 comes down to16 more wins. I’m not saying if VT would have played 16 more games it would be 16 more wins. However I can say how many we would have lost either. Also, looking over the schedules we play big east and ACC teams and they’ve played in the CAA the whole time. That has something to do with records!
Over the past “half dozen” years records aren’t far off either. ODU 146-60, VT 117-80. As you can see thats a difference of 29 games, with ODU playing 9 more than VT. I’m not too impressed with ODU. If VT played most of their games against CAA teams we have a better record, maybe better than ODU.
someone please tell me
how does scheduling Longwood and UNC-Greensboro help us “grow our brand” any better than playing ODU (current RPI=30) would?
Our “brand” is a false representation of a good program.
As of right now I’m not sure if I could rank VT in the top five best teams in the commonwealth.
+1
Greenberg adds to that misrepresentation….. He acts like we’re a better program than odu! If we want to have a better-than-mediocre year in the next decade (i.e top 50 – has Greenberg ever had a top 50 caliber team anywhere other than ’06???) those are the types of teams we are gonna need to play…. Especially with how awful the acc has been.
Does nothing for our schedule
I honestly would not want to play Tech right now as it would add nothing to our schedule. We already have a win over a pretty decent Clemson squad this year, which is fine with me. Since mid-majors tend to run the state of VA, I’d rather play Richmond, VCU, and Mason over these guys. We also play Georgetown a lot which is good for our program. I just really don’t see what the argument is about. A loss to Tech would be detrimental to our RPI. Hell right now even a win would hurt our RPI. lmao!
As far as the NSU argument goes, I could see if they had a higher RPI than us. However they are at the bottom of the horrible MEAC on a yearly basis and struggle to reach .400 ever year. Whereas we have had a consistent RPI of 50 or better for years now. I just don’t see why people don’t understand that. It’s okay though, we’ll make it to the tourney due to our tough OOC schedule, which includes wins over two very good teams that some consider Mid-Major, Richmond and Xavier. Oh and don’t forget the red hot GMU team! :-)
by Tony Chatmizzan on Feb 19, 2011 12:46 PM EST reply actions
This is one of the very few times I've been disappointed in Seth's actions
As you all know, I’m a little bit of a Seth homer, but in this case I just can’t stand behind him. Seth has done wonders for this basketball program, taking it from out of the darkness in the Ricky Stokes era, or as Tech basketball fans would call it “The Dark Age,” and brought us into quasi-basketball prominence. Greenberg is already the program’s second winningest coach and has helped to engineer wins over a few #1 teams (certainly his track record against ranked teams trumps Beamer’s). BUT, having said that, the unwillingness to play the top teams in your state or even playing the meaningful rivalries in the state OOC is puzzling.
It’s no secret that the hotbed of basketball talent in Virginia is Richmond and East out, so ODU is a school we should be salivating to play. They play in one of the strongest mid-major conferences in America, have a great track record over the last decade, and again, they lie right in the center of where our major recruiting hub SHOULD BE! For all of Greenberg’s recruiting successes (his greatest accomplishment to date), he should want to establish a HUGE presence in that area. Instead, he has shied away from that area, focusing more on the big cities on the East coast and prospects who are just below the Duke and UNC threshold in NC.
There’s nothing wrong with that strategy, and in fact as far as recruiting is concerned it seems to be working. But as a sports purist, I think you HAVE to get the best players in your state coming through your program (unless you live in a truly undesirable recruiting state, and that’s not the case for us), and 3 players from that area in 9 recruiting seasons (counting 2012) under Greenberg just isn’t cutting it. That doesn’t inspire Virginia players to want to come and play for a team like that. The word Virginia is in our name! We should utilize it! THAT should be our “BRAND!”
I know Greenberg is a proud guy, and sometimes his pride gets in the way of common sense (i.e. this flub-up on air). But you’re exactly right, Blaine came out smelling like roses and Seth like Dr. Evil’s right hand man…#2. It is really surprising though because Seth is so P.C. and he’s media-savvy. His degree is in BROADCAST JOURNALISM! So certainly this is a faux-pas that Seth could and should have avoided. You went on that show knowing there was a strong possibility that that question would be asked, so even if it was a change up, don’t act like it was an outside curve in the dirt on a 3-2 count with the bases loaded. It’s a legitimate question that people in the Tidewater area want to know the answer to. Just answer the question and move on. Otherwise you risk sounding like an arrogant hothead the likes of Lane Kiffin.
As for the reasoning? Well that bad thing is it’s not very sound either. Saying you don’t want to play a team because they’re not going to improve our “brand” and then playing some of the worst OOC in America last year and then playing the Longwoods of the state in state is talking out of both sides of your mouth. While it is true, he DOES want to improve our brand and he is trying to do that, there are two schools of thought there. Seth is obviously of the opinion he wants to play a few national powers OOC and then throw in some patsies to pad the wins and sneak them in under the radar. No pundit will fault Tech for OOC SOS because they play Longwood if they are regularly playing Purdue and K-State. But, the other school of though is, even with fewer wins, by changing the Longwoods into ODU’s or George Mason’s or reverting back to the Richmond series helps to grow our brand too, and may even lead to more tournament invites. That develops respect around The Commonwealth in a way that playing and blowing out the Longwood’s (which we haven’t even been doing) of the state doesn’t.
Even if you say you want big TV games over in-state contests, the idea behind scheduling ODU is that you can go there and have people in the state’s biggest metro area see you play. Even if it’s by word of mouth, you establish yourself that way, so there is PLENTY to gain. And as my college roommate was an ODU fan, TRUST ME, I heard all about Tech not scheduling ODU because they were scared. I know that’s not the real reason, BUT even if you’re a casual observer and you see Tech go 1-3 against ODU and then discontinue the series for no apparent reason, what are you gonna think? I agreed with my roommate that Tech should be playing that series and I said that if you’re Tech, an ACC school, you need to have the confidence you can go to a CAA school and beat them every time. Canceling the series makes that look like it’s not the case.
In summation, I’m not going to go out and say we’re the certifiably the best basketball program in the state, but I think we’re among them (hell, what am I talking about!? We just lost to UVA!). I’d put us in the top-3 with Mason and ODU, but if we shy away from those types of games and keep doing exactly how we’re doing, it’s going to be tough to keep making that argument without putting our money where our mouth is and going head-to-head.
One last point
Also you’re alienating a large fan-base of Virginia Tech alums from being able to see Tech play live.
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