Virginia Tech 17, East Carolina 10: Postgame Stream of Consciousness
by furrer4heisman on Sep 10, 2011 7:35 PM EDT
in Virginia Tech Football
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PrintIt's not often you get both a reality check and a win. Virginia Tech received both in its 17-10 win at East Carolina Saturday. The Pirates played ready, poised football from the beginning of the game and the Hokies definitely did not. In the past, this was the kind of game Tech would find a way to lose. Instead, Tech did what it needed to do to move to 2-0 for the first time since 2006.
The mistakes came early and often for the Hokies. They committed 12 penalties for 92 yards, including six in the game's first four drives. They committed two turnovers: One an interception in the end zone and the second a fumble one play after forcing their lone turnover of the game. They missed a field goal. They also somehow managed more yards per run play than per pass play and still won on the road.
Any notion that Logan Thomas is the second-coming of Cam Newton can end now. Thomas was 8-for-20 through the air and while he was the victim of a few drops, he was quite inaccurate throughout the game. His receivers dropped balls in this game, but so did ECU's secondary.
The offensive line did him no favors as ECU was able to get pressure on Thomas, even when it only rushed three. They were also inconsistent at opening holes for the Virginia Tech running backs, though they were very good at the end of each half.
David Wilson and Josh Oglesby were both able to grind out yards and wear down the ECU defense, resulting in a fourth-quarter scoring drive that saw Tech go 89 yards in 13 plays and 6:42. ECU did a very good job on defense in this game, especially up front, but the Hokies were finally able to get a solid push against its front seven in the game's last quarter.
What Thomas lacked through the air he made up for on the ground. This is a different kind of running quarterback than the Hokies are used to seeing and Thomas was able to maintain drives by putting his head down and getting past the first-down marker. His running ability will be big for the Hokies this year.
The Hokie defense was amazing, holding ECU's Air Raid offense to 10 points. A lot of people questioned Tech's ability to get pressure on Dominique Davis in a quick-strike offense, but the defensive line was able to do just that. They got to Davis early and often and were the difference in the game.
When the defensive line wasn't able to get around ECU's OL, the secondary had good enough coverage to force Davis to hold the ball long enough for the defense to get to him. Jayron Hosley, Kyle Fuller and Cris Hill were all really good in coverage today.
What we learned today is that the defense is improved, but the Hokies have a long way to go to be a legitimate Top 10 team. The offensive line is inconsistent, Thomas isn't very accurate and the special teams have really struggled so far. Tech is a very good team, but its poise and offensive execution leaves a lot to be desired. In the next two weeks we'll find out if it's just a mental thing on the road or if this team's issues are more serious than indicated by Saturday's performance.
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I agree with your analysis of Thomas for the most part
Certainly there were multiple times where the ECU defense dropped some balls that were within their grasp. I can count three just by memory. But one of those I remember was when Thomas was going to the ground and had started to throw before he knew he was going to be tackled from behind. Another was when I believe he just didn’t see a guy a layer underneath in zone coverage when he threw that bullet to Davis in the red zone. The velocity on that one saved his ass. And the pick that he threw wasn’t a really bad throw. It was a jump ball that I’m sure he imagined Boykin would come down with. It was more of a tremendous defensive play than anything else.
However, you are right that Thomas wasn’t crisp. He did have a couple of strange drops again, but the theme of today was mental errors all-around. Running-wise, he was excellent. Like you said, he’s not going to be a similar kind of runner at QB to anyone we have had. I like how well he runs the read-option and how he can keep drives alive by just taking off through a hole, putting his head down and extending. I think that’s an impressive weapon that will keep drives alive. He’s the first QB I’ve felt good about running designed QB draws since Vick.
He is certainly no Cam Newton (and I’m thankful for that in a lot of ways), but I don’t think we should be overly critical of the Logan Thomas we’ve seen through 2 weeks. I think this guy can still be a VERY good quarterback for us. He’s a couple of drops away from another touchdown and about 125 more yards. But he’s also a couple of drops away from a few more INT’s. He’s green and he will get better every week.
The pick
was a terrible throw by Thomas. Awful. It was a timing route. On those you’re supposed to throw it to where only your receiver has a chance at it. On that pass it was where only the defender had a chance at it.
He probably wasn’t as bad as I made him out to be and his running really helped the team today. But passing wise he’s not nearly as good as we thought.
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by furrer4heisman on Sep 10, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think it was a better defensive play
I mean that was Santonio Holmes 2-toe touching on that play. Not saying it wasn’t a bad throw. But all the talk was about how our experienced receiving core would help Thomas along as he got his feet wet. I think it’s a certainty right now that that is not happening. They’re the most disappointing position to me thus far. They’re showing an element of unreliability we haven’t seen out of these guys since they were freshmen.
by chicagomaroon on Sep 10, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
have to disagree
about our receiving core disappointing. I don’t think you can pin what we’ve seen so far on them. There have been a couple drops they’d like to have back, but more VERY nice catches. Logan’s accuracy has been pretty bad, and they’ve bailed him out quite a few times. They seem to be getting open. There haven’t been THAT many drops that we should be in a tizzy over them. Cut them a little slack.
Well, this game should at least put the media's obsession with Thomas on hold.
Which is definitely a good thing. Let him get back to easing into the starting job under the radar.
Agreed
Just like the Lebron or Kobe comparison to Jordan…Give it time! Sheesh!
by chicagomaroon on Sep 10, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Idk, I just wasn’t concerned about this game at all. It was close, but I wasn’t on the edge of my seat at all. Ever. I knew VT would pull it out. It might have something to do with PSU getting its ass handed to it by Alabama, I’m not sure. But watching this game, I was calm. Thomas has a long way to go to be in Tyrod’s “range,” but we knew that already. Today was his first road start and he didn’t lose. That’s the big thing to remember.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Sep 10, 2011 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
i noticed the dropped passes as well. the WR core is suppose to be the best in the ACC, where are they at? LT is still green, give him time. I live in brookville, where hs is from. He is very good. once he gets aclimated everything will come together for him.
What Logan did with his legs was nice, but his poise encouraged me the most. His accuracy is going to have to improve dramatically. That concerns me. Hopefully it’s just first-time jitters and working on mechanics. I’ve seen too many QBs that just never could acquire the necessary accuracy to feel assured. We shall see.
That was a really good offense the Hokies stopped today.
Offense needs some work. Its nice to be critical AND undefeated.
Defense really came through today
ECU had just 112 yards total offense. -15 yards rushing on 16 attempts.. Bud has the D clicking this year and it really helped LT to keep the ball out of ECU’s hands.
VPI&SU? Vippie Sue? What the hell is that?
Talk about a tale of two teams
UVA had the same sort of game that Tech did- sheeit, we were up 23-3 at the beginning of the second half, then we did EVERYTHING wrong. IU laid 28 points on us. It took a final drive with a two-point conversion, then a recovered fumble and field goal as time ran out. I see both our QBs need time to get it together, but it looks like LT is a bit more firm than Michael Rocco. If we had been playing you guys, with those mistakes, it’d have been a blowout.
Good game, though, guys. I’ll have to watch the replay on ESPNU tomorrow.
IT's going to be OK...
VT needed the Hype O Meter to be dialed back a bit. While I think that LT has a long way to go, I remember a Tyrod Taylor led team that went into Dowdy down in Greenville, and could only come away with 16 points. The Hokies only passed for 137 in that game, and it took huge doses of Ryan Williams to get us out of there with a win,
This will benefit LT in the long run. .Plus, he has this much more film on himself now, to see what not to do.
by Leonard Thompson on Sep 11, 2011 6:30 AM EDT reply actions
Reality check...
Reality check was definitely the right way to put it. To pull out a win when pretty much everything went wrong was a huge relief.
The defense was impressive. I was never stressed at all with the Tech defense out there. I was watching the defense anxious to see how big of a sack they’d get or if we’d get an INT.
On offense tho. I found myself watching the game like I’d watch VT vs Jacory Harris or Shinskie – waiting for the next interception. LT, when forced to throw the ball, at times looked lost. The play that stood out to me was in the second half, I think it was 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 12, LT scrambled around.. looked hesitant and was uncertain whether to run or throw and ended up throwing an incomplete pass.
Definitely glad Tech has a couple more games to go before the conference schedule starts up.
what did you guys think
of the officiating? It was a C-USA crew, did you think the Pirates actually played that clean??
I was particularly peeved about the interceptions being recalled, especially Hosley’s.
No clue about ECU
but with the exception of the Hosley PI, all of our penalties were legit. We played sloppy, undisciplined and without any poise, especially early. ECU was the opposite and we were very lucky to only be down 7-3 at half.
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by furrer4heisman on Sep 11, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
What I wrote on this game.
The Virginia Tech Hokies won a sloppy game against East Carolina, 17-10. Make no mistake, VT’s defense is back and dominated this game. That’s a pretty good East Carolina offense, and VT killed them, allowing only 2.1 yards-per-play! 2.1! VT’s defense has regressed the last four years, but this defense looks very legit.
VT’s offense should be much better than this, however, and VT fans should be worried. They should worry over putting up only 4.7 YPP against one of the worst defenses in the country. They should worry that Logan Thomas’ statistics on the season are terrible. This kid is a great, great runner. If EJ is 245, Thomas is 260. VT needs to run him 10+ times per game and have him as a threat to run on some sort of run-read option on at least 20 more. Every game. Thomas has a great arm, but he is completely without polished and is missing wide-open receivers left and right, throwing for only 240 yards on 39 tosses (6.1 yards per attempt). I guarantee you there are spread-option coaches all over the country who would kill to have a kid like Thomas. Through two games, VT is wasting this talent. If they figure it out, VT will be one helluva game. But from what they showed yesterday, this VT offense looks quite poor against a terrible defense. For some ‘Nole perspective, Louisisna Monroe’s defense is much, much better than ECU’s.
But if VTech doesn’t get stuff figured out on offense, it might not make the ACC Championship Game.
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by furrer4heisman on Sep 11, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, no problem. just c/p’d from the weekend recap.
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Maybe the Hokies should've played The Little Sisters of the Poor U
Alas; we can only aspire to FSU’s greatness.
ULM > ECU
App State > CSU
Call it a push?
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Nah, ULM is nowhere near ECU...NOT EVEN CLOSE
And worrying about Thomas at this point is premature. I bet E.J. wasn’t killing it in his second start either. In fact I went back and looked at his stats. I can’t tell if he started the first game where he saw serious action, so for argument’s sake I took his first three games where he saw considerable action. Here were his stats.
Completion : 65
Passing Yards: 624
TD’s: 2
INT: 6
Passer Rating: 130.46
Then I took Thomas’ first two starts and then extrapolated that data from his first two starts over an additional start (which should aide the case for Manuel as Thomas plays an Arkansas State team in his 3rd start who struggled against the pass a year ago) for comparison’s sake.
Logan Thomas
Completion : 44
Passing Yards: 360
TD’s: 3
INT: 1.5
Passer Rating: 107.8
Granted Manuel had SIGNIFICANTLY more passing yards and a SIGNIFICANTLY higher completion percentage, but he also had SIGNIFICANTLY more interceptions and fewer touchdowns. After analyzing their head-to-head statistics, it’s closer than you’d think. In fact for my personal preferences I’d take Thomas because he took care of the ball. The passer rating statistic is sometimes not representative of a QB’s true performance, i.e. the value of completion percentage over taking care of the ball. But, Manuel was no doubt more polished and ready at that point, and I’m not going to even try to say I think Thomas is better. That’s not the case. I’m just trying to show a rush to judgment on Thomas.
Regarding the ULM > ECU argument, ULM was 5-7 (4-4) in the Sun Belt 2010 including one-point win over FCS Southeastern Louisiana. I don’t think a middle of the road Sun Belt team is anywhere near the caliber of the team that ECU, a team that beat NC State, Southern Miss and was a bowl team. Granted that was last year, but I’m just working with what info we have. However, I would be more than ready to say that ECU will prove definitively to all of us that they are much better than ULM.
And also the ASU > than CSU argument needs quite a few more >>>. Since ‘07 (as far as CSU’s site will let me go back) they are 21-24 and have scored 88 points in 8 games against FBS schools. Appalachian State since that time is 45-10 with a victory at Michigan, a National Championship, never failed to make at least the quarterfinals of the FCS championship and scored 94 points in 5 games against FBS schools.
Neither of us can be flexing our muscles because of our schedules TO THIS POINT (obviously you guys can start next week…we can’t until next year). But to act like ULM and CSU were anything other than what they actually are (chumps) is a stretch. Saying what Logan Thomas would do against them is impossible and probably vastly different. For some Hokie perspective you guys should’ve beaten ULM into the ground. Offensively it was mediocre, and Jimbo spoke to that as well. I watched the game and it reaffirmed my belief that FSU is a fringe top-10 team (until proven otherwise) in a year of college football without many dominant teams.
Good luck next week! The ACC needs it and it can only help both of us. And you’re spot on about Thomas’ running ability.
by chicagomaroon on Sep 12, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, ULM is nowhere near ECU...NOT EVEN CLOSE
And worrying about Thomas at this point is premature. I bet E.J. wasn’t killing it in his second start either. In fact I went back and looked at his stats. I can’t tell if he started the first game where he saw serious action, so for argument’s sake I took his first three games where he saw considerable action. Here were his stats.
Completion : 65
Passing Yards: 624
TD’s: 2
INT: 6
Passer Rating: 130.46
Then I took Thomas’ first two starts and then extrapolated that data from his first two starts over an additional start (which should aide the case for Manuel as Thomas plays an Arkansas State team in his 3rd start who struggled against the pass a year ago) for comparison’s sake.
Logan Thomas
Completion : 44
Passing Yards: 360
TD’s: 3
INT: 1.5
Passer Rating: 107.8
Granted Manuel had SIGNIFICANTLY more passing yards and a SIGNIFICANTLY higher completion percentage, but he also had SIGNIFICANTLY more interceptions and fewer touchdowns. After analyzing their head-to-head statistics, it’s closer than you’d think. In fact for my personal preferences I’d take Thomas because he took care of the ball. The passer rating statistic is sometimes not representative of a QB’s true performance, i.e. the value of completion percentage over taking care of the ball. But, Manuel was no doubt more polished and ready at that point, and I’m not going to even try to say I think Thomas is better. That’s not the case. I’m just trying to show a rush to judgment on Thomas.
Regarding the ULM > ECU argument, ULM was 5-7 (4-4) in the Sun Belt 2010 including one-point win over FCS Southeastern Louisiana. I don’t think a middle of the road Sun Belt team is anywhere near the caliber of the team that ECU, a team that beat NC State, Southern Miss and was a bowl team. Granted that was last year, but I’m just working with what info we have. However, I would be more than ready to say that ECU will prove definitively to all of us that they are much better than ULM.
And also the ASU > than CSU argument needs quite a few more >>>. Since ‘07 (as far as CSU’s site will let me go back) they are 21-24 and have scored 88 points in 8 games against FBS schools. Appalachian State since that time is 45-10 with a victory at Michigan, a National Championship, never failed to make at least the quarterfinals of the FCS championship and scored 94 points in 5 games against FBS schools.
Neither of us can be flexing our muscles because of our schedules TO THIS POINT (obviously you guys can start next week…we can’t until next year). But to act like ULM and CSU were anything other than what they actually are (chumps) is a stretch. Saying what Logan Thomas would do against them is impossible and probably vastly different. For some Hokie perspective you guys should’ve beaten ULM into the ground. Offensively it was mediocre, and Jimbo spoke to that as well. I watched the game and it reaffirmed my belief that FSU is a fringe top-10 team (until proven otherwise) in a year of college football without many dominant teams.
Good luck next week! The ACC needs it and it can only help both of us. And you’re spot on about Thomas’ running ability.
by chicagomaroon on Sep 12, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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